Running Off-Leash: An Interview with Sebastian Tocchet
05.20.09 | in Fitness | 0 Comments Share
Triathlete and trainer extraordinaire Sebastian Tocchet is helping a dedicated corps of fundraisers meet their goals—find out how.
The American Liver Foundation is working hard to help the 30 million Americans affected by liver disease. (PSSST! you can help too!) One of their initiatives, the Liver LIFE Challenge, seeks to raise awareness and money for research through volunteer fundraising and participation in the 2009 San Francisco Marathon. These runners, along with the American Liver Foundation, are looking out for those affected with liver disease.
But who's looking out for them?
Certified multi-sport trainer and competitor Sebastian Tocchet, that's who.
We caught up with Sebastian to talk about the Liver LIFE Challenge, his training plan for the runners, and his overall philosophy on running.
Jump to: Interview » Credentials » Races » Contact Info »
Interview
Hella Sound: What's the general training plan that you're having the Liver LIFE runners follow?
Sebastian Tocchet: It's a day-on-day-off program. Given the variety of different experience levels of the runners, I'm trying to offer a plan that people can follow that is more realistic, and still safe so they won't get hurt. As a personal trainer for the last 10 years I've found that to be the biggest problem. When people try to do races I hear them say "I get hurt."
From my own experience running races as well as in reading, the day-on-day-off is one of the most safe plans. You get in 3 to 4 times a week, depending on which week you do. And that's really all you need. On top of that, for people that are a little more serious about speed you can add doubles to a day or do back-to-back days. If they want to keep going, I speak with them individually about customizing their own plan to meet their goals. On the calendar there are days when I have back-to-backs, so there are weeks when there are 5 runs, but most weeks you do 3 to 4 runs.
Hella Sound: Some people are probably coming to this with a good base; do you find that a lot of volunteers are not doing a lot of miles per week?
Sebastian Tocchet: They're doing this to benefit the American Liver Foundation, so it's tailored more towards people that are coming up and only does 3 to 5 miles a week in their runs. My first priority was to develop a plan that was safe. Then it needed to be doable and get them towards their goal of finishing the half. It's not all at once. It's catered to the more beginner-to-intermediate runner. There are a handful of intermediate runners, with a couple people that are interested in running fast. One of the runners has already done a few marathons.
Hella Sound: Do you know which half of the San Francisco Marathon they're running? Are they all running the first half? Or the second half?
Sebastian Tocchet: I think we're all going to shoot for the first half. It's more scenic and more challenging. The second half is flatter and faster, but the first half starts at the Embarcadero and goes over the Golden Gate Bridge. It's more of a San Francisco experience. Not to say that Golden Gate Park is not, but you're running along the Embarcadero and looking at downtown—just a ton of scenery.
Hella Sound: Yeah, picture perfect. So how are you preparing your runners for the hills they'll be facing? I know there's a good-sized hill leading up to the bridge in the Presidio that'll be challenging.
Sebastian Tocchet: I just chase them all with a whip.
Hella Sound: (laughs)
Sebastian Tocchet: No, we've already done one of our hill workouts—we did a nice run through the Presidio and then up the Lyon Street stairs. It's a real meat and potatoes workout. We have bi-weekly runs; one is a long distance run, which is Saturdays, and all of those runs include hills, and they get much more challenging as the plan progresses.
Then on Saturday May 23rd we're actually going to run part of the course. One of the things I've found through my experience is that knowing the course and running the course is the best way to prepare yourself mentally and physically for race day. You know what hills are coming. It's much better than just running and wondering "how many miles are left? when is this going to end?" You may know the course from a map, but it's much different to know it from the experience of running it.
Hella Sound: Right. You can see landmarks you recognize along the run and say "hmmm, I'm feeling better than I did last time I reached this point."
Sebastian Tocchet: Exactly. It's all part of the psychological response thing that makes you feel more comfortable and you have a better time. It's ingrained in the workouts we do; we'll always be doing hills, and how I coach them and talk to them about techniques that I've learned.
Hella Sound: What trainers or methodologies have most influenced your training philosophy? Are there any current philosophies that you like?
Sebastian Tocchet: That's a good question. This may not make much sense at first, but one of the biggest influences I've ever had was my dog, Johnny, who actually passed away a year ago. He wasn't a greyhound, wasn't particularly designed for sprinting; he was a type of hound. I used to run with him at the beach and the trails when I lived in Carmel. What was amazing to watch with him was the mechanics of his gait.
When you watch people running, you notice that it's our head that gets in the way. We can run and we can run well, but we have this expectation of what we want to do. "I'm going to go do this workout today", even when the smart thing would be to take a rest. Or "I'm going to go run a marathon so I have to work hard." In watching my dog, I realized how effortless it was for him and how happy he was to run. It was really about attitude, which is profound.
Trainer-wise, Payton Jordan, who was the head coach of the US Olympic team. I read a book of his and it affected me greatly. I've also read and watched the DVD for ChiRunning, by Danny Dryer
I was getting certified at the Olympic Training Center, getting my multi-sport certification, and they were talking about the two forms of running. One is barefoot running, and the other the more technologically enhanced method, which is what Dr. Romanov studied. What they discovered was the way that people look when they run according to Romanov's style is virtually identical to the barefoot running style. It's very interesting. My personal style is an integration from what I've learned from Romanov's studies and what Payton Jordan has written.
Hella Sound: I see how you can be inspired by your dog running. They do it for the pure physical enjoyment of doing what they're doing—they're not worried about goals or PRs or losing weight.
Sebastian Tocchet: Right! They're not chasing that ball, thinking "I'm going to do this X many times so I can lose X pounds and look good naked", you know?
Hella Sound: (laughs)
Sebastian Tocchet: They're just doing it because they like to go fast and they like the way it feels. It's strange, but I find that appreciating the enjoyment of it really effects how well we do, instead of being so "goal-driven".
Hella Sound: It reminds me in a way of the book Why We Run: A Natural History
Sebastian Tocchet: Yes, but for me it's less about "why we move" and more about the intuitive "how we move."
Hella Sound: What are your thoughts on cadence—an element of central importance to the philosophy of the music Hella Sound does?
Sebastian Tocchet: There are a lot of different arguments about stride rate and stride length. Payton Jordan said that in order for you to run faster you have to take longer strides with a minimal amount of effort. In terms of physics, a longer stride is going to cause more force on your body, which can cause problems physiologically because you're inducing more force.
What I follow is the idea that if you're going to run faster, your foot can't remain on the ground for much time at all. Also, you want to have a faster cadence. The longer your foot is planted on the ground, the longer you're essentially staying in the same place.
Cadence-wise, 70 to 80 (or 140 to 160 in Hella Sound running music terms—Editor) strides per minute is probably a comfortable cadence, and an appropriate cadence for speed or race pace is around 85-90 strides per minute (or 170 to 180 in Hella Sound running music terms—Editor). A good practice is to count the strides, generally your lead leg, for 60 sec or for 30 sec and doubling that. (FYI: We offer 3 methods of calculating your stride rate on each song page, including the easy-to-use, downloadable Stride Rate Finder MP3—Editor)
And, in racing and faster speeds, if you go back to the example of watching a dog run, their strides are shorter when they trot and run casually, and they stretch out their body when they run faster, taking longer strides with minimal amount of effort because they have a relaxed fluid motion. If you try to over-lengthen your stride too much and reach way out, you're going to end up bringing your knees up. Also, when you stride far out, you have a braking effect when your foot strikes the ground. That's not what you want to do. It's not good practice to deliberately try to take longer strides; instead, think of taking shorter, faster strides, and as you run faster your stride length will increase naturally with speed.
You really want to be on top of your foot when you hit the ground, which requires a comparatively shorter stride length. It's a very subtle thing you're feeling; you expand out so you let your momentum carry you through the air, but you don't want to expand so far that once you strike the ground you're braking. What is important is not that you adhere to specific cadence number, but develop a feel for your leg speed and adapting to the intensity of moving faster.
Hella Sound: You're working against yourself, for one, then all the impact of each strike over time adds up.
Sebastian Tocchet: Payton Jordan recommended that runners "bound." You watch the fastest animals on earth and they bound. When you develop speed you start getting further off the ground. If you look at pictures of really fast athletes, they're really off the ground. They're flying. Suspended in the air. They get off the ground so quickly with their foot that they're in the air most of the time.
Hella Sound: What got you into training and fitness as a profession? Were you always an athlete?
Sebastian Tocchet: It's something I've always done. I played all different sports, then got into triathlons in high school. I did the Wildflower back in high school before it became the big thing. I have competed more in triathlons, so I guess you could call me a multi-sport athlete, but I also have competed in running races. I tend to like 5ks and competing in the shorter distances because I'm more interested in speed. And, well, avoiding wear. (laughs)
Hella Sound: (laughs) Yeah, that's what I've started thinking. I'm not really hell-bent on working towards marathons or ultras, myself. Getting 5ks and 10ks and shorter races locked in seems like a more fun goal that I can maintain longer.
Sebastian Tocchet: Yeah, and with the shorter distances it's more of an attainable goal. Ultimately, you're still going to have to run a lot of miles—just as you would with a marathon—because short races take a lot of practice, too.
Hella Sound: As a personal trainer, do you find that people working on 5ks or 10ks can get the same kind of aerobic benefit as someone working towards marathons?
Sebastian Tocchet: Absolutely. Absolutely. Ultimately, once you get into the higher miles—as with a marathon—you're just breaking down the body more. Your heart is stronger because you're running farther, but what overall benefits are you looking for? Higher distances take a toll for the benefits you derive from them. It's also more manageable time-wise to train shorter distances, because you're out running for 2 hours instead of 4 hours, which is easier to fit into a schedule.
Hella Sound: You touched on the hill training you're having the Liver LIFE runners do; what sort of speedwork do you have planned for them?
Sebastian Tocchet: Speedwork is really the combination of natural ability, your mechanics and your wind—your endurance. It's one thing to get the miles in; it's another to gain speed. For more experienced runners that have their cardio base, it's a matter of practice, and it comes down to adaptation. The body has to adapt to running faster just as it did to running distance. With the less experienced runners I'm trying to talk to them a lot about mechanics. Moving faster and swinging your arms harder—working harder—is not going to make you faster. I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions people have about getting faster. It's about mechanics and experience.
Hella Sound: So, in a way, trying to get faster by working harder is kind of like trying to lift a dresser with your back.
Sebastian Tocchet: Exactly! Exactly. And—again, back to the dog thing—when you watch animals run fast, they're huffing and puffing because they're moving fast, but it's fluid motion. And that's what you have to work for and train for. It takes time.
Hella Sound: Well thanks a lot for your time! Is there anything else that you'd like to add?
Sebastian Tocchet: I guess you could call it kind of a mantra. It's something that I tell everyone I train, and I've been trying to perfect it myself. This comes right from the great Australian task master, Percy Cerutty: "Relaxation means control, not ease of effort." To run faster, run relaxed with every movement under control. Everyone is preoccupied with time; if you tell someone you ran a marathon, they ask you what your time was. The biggest thing about running fast is control. In their book Champions in the Making, Payton Jordan and Bud Spencer wrote: "...Any attempt at forced relaxation only increases tension or, worse yet, may slow an effort. Extra effort does not mean increased speed. The goal of sound running is to move at all speeds-particularly at top speed-well balanced, relaxed, and always under control. A self-disciplinary thought is 'Run faster, run relaxed, every movement under control.'"
It's not about running harder; it's about running relaxed, in complete control.
Credentials
- ACE Certified Personal Trainer
- USAT Level 1 Multisport Coach
- 10 years experience as Personal Trainer
- 5 years experience as Multisport Coach
- 23 years experience as competitive athlete
- Competed in over 25 triathlons Sprint, Olympic, Long and Ironman distances
Races of Note
- 1987 Wildflower Triathlon (pre-USAT Olympic distance categorization)
- 1988 Wildflower Triathlon (pre-USAT Olympic distance categorization)
- 1988 Monterey Bay Triathlon Half-Ironman
- 1996 Wildflower Triathlon Olympic Course
- 1996 Vineman Triathlon Long Course
- 1996 Escape from Alcatraz Triathlon
- 1996 Pacific Grove Triathlon Olympic Course
- 1997 Vineman Triathlon Ironman Course
- 1997 Wildflower Triathlon Long Course
- 1997 Pacific Grove Triathlon Olympic Course
- 1997 Mike and Rob's Ventura Half-Ironman
- 1998 Pacific Grove Triathlon Olympic Course
Contact Information
If you are interested in contacting Sebastian for training you may contact him via the following:
- Gym: www.bodyworksf.com
- ACE Profile: www.acefitness.org
- Email: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)
Consult with a physician and/or fitness expert before beginning or altering your training program. Please review the Terms of Service for more information.
Photos courtesy BeckySnyder, Rodefeld, mike warren and johntrainor on Flickr. Photo of Payton Jordan courtesy Wikipedia.
Related Articles
-->Related Articles
- Fitness Liver LIFE Challenge: Great Race, Great Cause
- Fitness Marathon Tips: Nutrition and Planning
- Hella Sound Stride Rate Finder: Find Your Stride Rate the Easy Way
Comments
Be the first to leave a comment!
Leave a Comment
Let’s keep it polite and on topic. Email address is required but will never be shared, sold or used for nefarious purposes.